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Dear Friend, Consider This !

aymon de albatrus

I must confess that i am blessed to have a friend like you, an inspiration and a guide on how to be civil even though we are apparently in different camps, for you are mostly in the Infralapsarian camp and therefore arminian, whilst i am definitely in the Supralapsarian camp therefore mostly reformed.

Truly I am so glad about you.

In my article on "Preordination" what I really desired was to have an answer from you on the following concept (borrowed from someone else) that if taken calmly and correctly may satisfy to a large extent both camps. I am not sure if you skirted an answer or just did not gel.

Now let us consider.

  1. At the beginning (of course there was no beginning, only when time began) God was alone and there was nothing else.

  2. God decided to create.

  3. He had an INFINITE number of choices, of course infinite means infinite, that is a number without end, all possible possibilities where there available to Him, without contradictions and avoiding going around in circle in non conclusive philosophical merry go rounds.

  4. Because God is Omni-everything (by definition) He could assess ALL these possibilities and that is an infinite number. By this I mean from Godís point of view: "if I give life to Adam as a free agent (to some extent) what choices can he make, and to Caesar and to Hitler, and so on", a domino kind of effect. God saw in His "mind" how things would have gone.

  5. Now God is not similar to changeable man that changes His mind every 2 seconds. God had a precise and eternal purpose for creating with a precise aim for His pleasure.

  6. Thus out of these infinite possibilities (and there are none others) He decided to give life to the one we now live in, the one that suited His own most holy purpose.

  7. Remember that God lives in an eternal NOW.  A simple example for us men is to consider the whole plan of creation, from beginning to end (and this plan has a beginning and an end) as a film reel. For us humans that live in time it is like we are travelling from frame to frame (time), not knowing what will happen next (the following frames), but not so for God, for He has the whole film fully stretched in front of Him (eternal now) and so He knows perfectly well and exactly ALL the details of every possibility from beginning to end, at the same "time", and thus cannot change, for if it did from what God saw "at the beginning", then God saw wrong and He is no longer God, by definition.

  8. So He gave life to this possibility, now reality. He decreed that it should be so; therefore He knows ALL that will happen not only because he saw the events in the corridors of time but foremostly because He decreed (gave life to) ALL that is to happen. Arminians incorrectly state that God saw that certain humans would convert to Him and so He granted them Salvation, but this is not Biblical: Act 13:48. Even from a logical point of view it is illogical, for how can someone grant something to anyone that has already taken it?

  9. Now the definite implication of this is that nothing can change from every single detail of this possibility that God saw and gave life to, for if it does, even a single atom, it will not achieve the purpose for which it was created and thus, clearly, God is not God anymore for His Omni attributes were not true. 

Another non-sense Arminian statement is "prayers changes things" if by that it is meant that things would have gone another way without prayer, for, again, it would destroy the omni attributes of God. Prayer changes us to align with His will and purposes, according to what God decreed; and that is included in what God saw at he beginning, so there in no change in the view of God. In our perceived view, Yes, but not in His.

To labour the point: If the creature were to decide: "I will get an ice-cream" departs and then "No, I will not" returns but then "oh yes I will" departs and so on for 20 times, ALL these changes would have been seen by God before the beginning and therefore fixed in time.  If perchance our prayers were to move God to grant our desire, to us it would appear as if we in fact changed things by our prayer, but not so from what God saw at the beginning, for His granting was part and parcel of the Possibility that He gave life to and thus fixed in time.

  1. In this concept, the "free" agency of the creature is maintained, coming from the fact that this possibility had included in it all the "free" actions of the creature, and therefore the creature is responsible for them, and also Godís interventions as well. But once in motion, having received life from God, it cannot change, for the reason given above, hence "preordination". Thus, in a nutshell, ALL is pre-ordained (including the free actions of the creature) and cannot change, as seen from Godís point of view.

This concept does comes a long way to solve the apparent problem of man responsibility whilst maintaining intact the Omni sovereign attributes of God.

Friend, I desired you view on the above, thanks